435- Dirty Data Makes AI Worse w/Stephen Hightower

435-Stephen Hightower
Host: Doug Camin
Guest: Stephen Hightower
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Doug Camin: welcome to the You've Been Heard Platform Leaders podcast. today I
am talking with Steven Hightower, the chief technology officer at Parmar. so
welcome, Steven. Thanks for joining us.

Stephen Hightower: Thank you very much, Douglas. Appreciate you having me.

Doug Camin: So, Steven, can you tell us a little bit about your background here?
I do a little bit of, pre research. I checked out, profiled LinkedIn, really
long history of a lot of different roles in a wide range. And you spent a long
time in, the private equity space and you go all the way back to big defense
here. So, tell us a little bit about that.

Stephen Hightower: Yeah, I've been, in the space getting, exposed to a lot of
different things. I started my career early in the defense related, business and
then, went to Lockheed Martin, which was GE aerospace, Martin Marietta, and
Lockheed Martin. And I was there for, a little over twenty six years. Wow. And,
I took an early retirement, and I was the chief information officer at the
global training and logistics business, which is about a four and a half billion
dollar a year business. Based in Orlando. But prior to that, I got exposure and
manufacturing, quality engineering, business development, etc. so I got to
rotate around and see a lot of different parts of the business. And I moved
around, a good bit in the company. So I think one of the benefits of doing that
is you get exposure to different businesses, different cultures. And of course,
everybody does things a little bit differently. And, so it was a great
opportunity to, understand the business. And then, after that, I started
consulting in the private equity space and my first, client was Yeti Coolers,
which was a heck of a fun ride and, had a great time there, great products,
great people. And, then I've been consulting for private equity up until last
year when I took this role at Harmar. And, actually Harmar has been a client
since twenty fourteen. So I knew a good bit about the business and, knew a good
bit about their products. And, the CEO and I have worked together since twenty
sixteen and he needed some help and some areas and asked me to come on, so I
agreed to it.

Doug Camin: You were the guy. Nice. So tell us a little bit about Harmar and
what does Harmar do?

Stephen Hightower: We help people stay in their homes. So we build mobility
equipment. So we build stair lifts. We have vehicle lifts. we do elevators, we
do vertical platform lifts. So everything, as people age, they want to stay in
their homes. They want to be in an environment that they're comfortable with.
And when they start having physical problems, we have solutions for them to be
able to help them stay in their homes.

Doug Camin: Thanks for sharing. So I'm going to go back here to your days. And
so for me, there's a connection here. So, twenty six years inside of, aerospace
and defense and Lockheed. when you took the retirement package to go out of
there, like what were your most transferable skills from in there to the
outside? because like being in aerospace and defense has its own like world, if
you will.

Stephen Hightower: Sure, So, program management is a core skill at Lockheed
Martin, right? Because we manage large, complex programs. So you had to have a
real good skill set in program management. And that's transferable everywhere.
Yeah. then systems engineering, right. Being able to look at everything from
beginning to end and understand the components in between was a transferable
skill. lean six sigma black belt, Lockheed, got on the train and, we trained a
lot of people and certified them in that discipline. And then of course, I'm a
certified information systems and security professional because I led one of the
first information security, enterprise programs at Lockheed Martin. So those
were the four items that really transferred. Well. And the other piece that
transferred well is because I was in so many different businesses and different
jobs, I get a real good sense in terms of how well a company is run, by just
looking under the covers and looking at a couple of different metrics. And if
they're keeping metrics or, if they have KPIs that really reflect actionable
plans, then it's really easy to understand that. So when you work in the private
equity space, you're working at companies that are much smaller but are still,
providing the same set of services. So it's pretty easy when you've had a lot of
scar tissue. Like I've had to be able to walk into a place and quickly
understand where the pain points are.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So yeah, like I'm a mid-market specialist CIO. That's where,
tenure in government service was ten years. it's municipal CIO and then in the
nonprofit space as well. but, generally like large nonprofits, like, fifty
million and up, hundreds of employees type of space. so I'm thinking about the
different skills that, you mentioned a toolkit that you have and you said
there's like the handful, four or five things that you could walk in. You look
under the hood, you pull up this cover and you look and you can tell, is it
good? Is it bad? Is this thing running okay? what are they?

Stephen Hightower: Well, there's only three metrics that really matter. Okay.
Cycle time, the quality of the service, and the unit cost that you're providing.
And you can map those to anything that you're doing. So if you're not tracking
that in your business, then I have a good understanding of, of what's important
to you. And those are the ones that are actionable. They're the ones that make a
difference. And, I developed an appreciation for those because I worked in
manufacturing, I worked in quality and engineering and business development. So
I saw a variety of different functional organizations. And over that time,
developed my own playbook in terms of how I would approach things and what I
would do.

Doug Camin: And so you transitioned to private equity. you really built yourself
a specialization in helping, the title, if we put this title, this podcast under
the title of, exit, risk to exit multiple. And I think if you go look at your
LinkedIn profile, you've got your narrative at the top where you discuss that
your go to market, like superpower is the ability to take risk out of things and
to make, build confidence essentially in the business of what's going there.
like how have you executed that through different entities, you've mentioned
Yeti cooler was your first place you went through, but you had a variety of
variety of different businesses. so which ones were more interesting? Which ones
were more challenging? What were some of the biggest ones you faced?

Stephen Hightower: well, you always follow or at least, in my perspective, you
follow what drives revenue because revenue is what drives the business. It's
what enables the business to operate and to fund different initiatives. And so
you need to look at that in terms of that process flow order to cash, right is
one that you need to understand, because that is really what drives the business
and the cycle time that it takes in order to convert, orders to cash. that would
be the first thing. And the second thing is really, how's your service level?
Are you providing the right level of service to the trains run on time. Are you
enabling the business and being able to have technology be a multiplier versus
being a cost center?

Stephen Hightower: Because I believe where technology is today, that every
business should really be a digital transformation.

Doug Camin: Yeah. I mean, if you're in it space, you're pretty much always being
asked to do some form of digital transformation no matter where you're going.
and every business in some way a technology business nowadays too.

Stephen Hightower: Absolutely.

Doug Camin: I mean, even the asphalt paving company probably has some technology
in there somewhere that they need to manage and maintain.

Stephen Hightower: They do. Everybody does.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So, you mentioned you got your CSP there. and I noticed that
you've had it for a really long time. So, you really got that right at almost
the beginning there of this cisp coming out, huh?

Stephen Hightower: Well, I was asked to lead the first information security
enterprise program across Lockheed Martin. And so we had five different business
areas and five different CIOs and five different ways of doing things and five
different sets of tools. And, I was asked to come in and have a single process
and a single tool. And, so it's sort of like I was from corporate. I was here to
help.

Doug Camin: famous last words.

Stephen Hightower: Yeah. and I had a lot of security engineers on the program
and they were talking about taking the CISSP exam. And I said, well, I'm going
to take it with you. So, I studied and I went in and I took the test and passed
the test. I can't say. All my security engineers passed the test, But I passed
the test and have been involved with that, throughout my career.

Doug Camin: yeah. I picked up mine. Oh. What about for four years ago now? I
think I just renewed my first cycle for mine, and, it's a challenge. Even
nowadays, especially, I think, back then, you would have been doing that
probably even on a paper test. Huh. now it's all adaptive computer testing and
stuff like that, which, depending on how you like to take tests, it can be
easier or harder.

Stephen Hightower: Yeah. Ours was like, we met at a hotel and everybody was
there, pencils down and taking the tests, and it was generally like a four hour
test.

Doug Camin: Wow. That's wild. So, this is one of the questions that I ask when
we have guests on the show. we talk about your career, we talk about your
background and what makes you tick and things like that. but I love to ask some
personal questions, humorous, fun background, personal questions. You've been in
the business a long time. So, if we go way back to how did you get into
technology, like we'll do like, what was your first computer experience or a
technology experience? Yeah, I see. Yeah.

Stephen Hightower: Well, it was, Commodore sixty four.

Doug Camin: Wow. Okay.

Stephen Hightower: Yeah. So I started writing code early and found that I had an
aptitude for it. And, it was a fun way to, problem solve with different, issues
and be able to do things that, other people weren't doing. So that's how the bug
bit me.

Doug Camin: So it was that like when you were at like high school and stuff or.

Stephen Hightower: Yeah. Well, I was probably out of high school.

Doug Camin: Okay. college, post-college. Alright, it's fair enough. but,
thinking about that, you didn't start your career in technology then?

Stephen Hightower: No, I did, you did start.

Doug Camin: Okay. Right. So once you kind of got bit by the bug, you were like,
oh, this is for me. I love this stuff. And you were immediately rooted into
technology.

Stephen Hightower: Yeah, I just found I had an aptitude to write code. And I
guess I was wired, in that way. So I got the opportunity to do a lot of
different, projects when I work because I work for, a variety of different
companies and even, work for a startup that was taking the first IBM PC when
they came out and building a retail information system, that would, be used for
retailers that were under twenty million dollars. And that was the start up,
venture capital, funded, company. And, I went to work for them. And so I got
exposure, really quickly to the first IBM PCs that came out. So, writing code
and sixty four K stack and, data stack was sixty four K, you didn't have a lot
of memory or things to work with. So had to be able to, do a little bit of
assembly language and lower level coding to be able to get it to work.

Doug Camin: Wow. So I'm gonna shift back into talking about leadership in
particular here. you've been in the space a long time and you've been in a lot
of different roles, so we talk about your Lockheed days and that's aerospace and
defense. It's very, I don't call it regimented, but it has a lot of structure
behind it. Now you're in the private equity space. I'm sure there's a certain
structure. It's different than it was in the other space. But, there's different
goals. There's different, focuses and things like that. What were the qualities
or what are the qualities that you feel that leaders need? So like, this is, I
think the ask of if you were talking to other people who are not leaders or
coming up into leadership, what would you share with them about both those
spaces? Like, what does it take to do to be successful in that in like a
Lockheed Martin type of space, whether it's that or some other space. And what
does it take to be successful in the places you're at now in these like private
equity, high growth and, companies.

Stephen Hightower: Sure. So, there totally opposite, right. Because, my
experience in Lockheed is that it was slow. A lot of people wanted to be in the
decision process. It was tough to get things done quickly, right. You could have
the best idea in the world, but you had to go through, so many different
meetings and reviews before you would get approval that speed was an issue,
right? Didn't move quickly enough. And so if you go into that type of
environment, you have to have a really good problem solving skill set in order
to be creative on how you can get your value proposition clearly outlined and
get it across to people to get them invested in terms of what you want to be
able to accomplish. so that's a skill set that, can be learned. but it requires,
deep work in terms of investigation and learning how to describe a value
proposition, of course, with AI now, doing a lot of that work is so much simpler
than it was when I was at Lockheed Martin. But then you transition into the
private equity space. And a lot of times, you have single resources. You have
people who have worked at the company for, ten or fifteen years. So there's a
lot of tribal knowledge not to say that there's not. And the larger companies,
it's less bureaucratic. And the real competitive advantage in private equity is
speed. Doing things fast or doing things quickly. not being afraid of failure.
Being able to fail fast, fail early, and adjust. Right. So it's a little bit of,
tuck and roll because you're going to experience a lot of different things. And
so you need to be able to adjust and problem solve and really make those changes
quickly, because private equity is about speed, because that's what creates
value, because the sooner you're able to do it, the more value you can create
for the company. And that is really what you're doing in private equity. And
there's a standard playbook for private equity, right? You buy a platform
company, you invest in it, you find the appropriate acquisitions in terms of
being able to bolt on. And then you have a five year hold whole period. And
hopefully at the end of that time, you've been able to create the value through
the scaling of the different, companies that you've purchased to add on to the
platform company. And then you go to market to be able to, see what your
multiple is.

Doug Camin: And so in that space, the private equity space. So I think one of, I
have a couple of thoughts here. Maybe I'll see if I can get each of them out
first and foremost, at times there's, a negative connotation to the private
equity space in terms of because of that, like some of the things you described,
the let's go fast and let's just focus on the dollars and those types of things.
And, so when I think about that from the perspective of an IT leader, so our
listeners on this podcast who might think, what's it going to be like being
inside of that company or that entity. some of us crave stability, but you don't
always get what you get but in a different way in private equity, because,
there's an exit coming at some point where, you will be either rolled up to
somewhere else and you won't be needed anymore. or something along those lines.
So how would you give advice to somebody to navigate those waters successfully?

Stephen Hightower: Well, in the private equity space, if you're in technology,
you have to be able to scale up and down the stack, right? You've got to be able
to work a low level technical issue problem, solve it, but you've got to also be
strategic and be able to chart a path forward. And so what my experience has
been in that space is when you do that and you continue to create value, you can
continue to create a problem solving environment where you're solving problems
for the business. you're improving the cycle time for revenue generation, right?
You're being able to invoice, you're being able to close your books, I've been
in some private equity businesses that had like an eighteen day monthly closing
process. So the only thing that they did was close the books for eighteen months
versus, in well-run companies, you close the books in a day or two.

Doug Camin: Yeah. In the nonprofit space, I've definitely felt that, like, what
does it take to actually get a set of books closed? And, it could be ten,
fourteen days of the month just for closing. And that's considered acceptable.
it's just, par for the course or how business has to be done, if you will, or at
least it's accepted as such.

Stephen Hightower: It shouldn't be accepted. Because when you have a process
like that, right? If you're a Lean Six Sigma practitioner, you're just looking
at a lot of waste that's being created because there's manual processes, there's
corrections, things that are being done that should have the right master data
approach so that you don't have those issues. Because in every business, you
have your critical business systems, right? You've got your engineering system,
you've got your ERP system, you've got your CRM solution, etc. and then when you
look at all those coming together, if you don't have a master data approach,
then you're going to have that problem with duplicate data, incorrect data. And
now with AI, the quality of your data is what really matters because you're not
going to be able to make good decisions with your enterprise data if it's not
accurate. And unfortunately, many people have never taken that seriously.
They've always given lip service to it. But now I think that with AI, it's
starting to drive a different focus in terms of data quality.

Doug Camin: yeah, I can feel that like at the place where I'm at currently,
we're moving from a siloed system approach and some of what you described, which
is the different disparate systems, there's an ERP system, sort of free stance,
finance maintains it, there's an HR system, sort of free stance. The HR team
maintains that payroll. Same thing. And, I just completed almost a two year
project to get a lot of this done, but, moving on to Oracle NetSuite in
particular, in this case, and consolidating onto a single database system and
the efficiency and the discipline that gets driven by forcing everything into
one set of data, one data library essentially, has been eye opening for some of
the teams because they used to be able to kind of like fudge it, for lack of a
better way to put it, they could be like, we maintain an employee list here in
the ERP system, but it can be slightly different than the employee list that's
maintained in the HR system because they have, because all we have to do is move
data back and forth. They don't have to share a common database. Right? And all
of a sudden, they go live on NetSuite and they're like, oh, if we terminate an
employee HR, it carries all the way through immediately to the ERP side. And how
are we going to, invoice the last, week or two weeks of invoicing for this
individual's time or, whatever it is they need to be built for, so yeah, so like
driving that like lower cycle time and stuff like that. I'm seeing that even
where I'm at today. and then I think your point is well made about the AI side
of it where you, It's always been true to say like garbage in, garbage out when
it comes to data analytics work. But the AI tools turbocharge that because it
can take such vast amounts of data. And if you've got it can just eat in one
swoop all your systems and then try to synthesize them. And if they're not
synchronized, it's not going to work.

Stephen Hightower: Right? Yeah. Well, people are always able to fudge it. Any
ERP migration that I ever did in the past was always driven by the quality of
the data, right? You're moving from one system to another. The edits are
different, the field sizes are different, etc. that was always the biggest
issue, and people would just let their data become dirty over the years. Just
like cleaning out your attic. They never, ever focused on doing it because they
were able to do workarounds. They were able to keep spreadsheets offline. They
were able to do all these different things that allowed that behavior to
continue. But now I don't see that continuing anymore because with the AI tools
that are available now and what you're getting from them is pretty amazing. And
the quality of your data is what drives the quality of the decisions. Wow.

Doug Camin: So, you mentioned you spent time at Lockheed and, so in the defense
business and stuff, so now do you find that, when you're looking for like
opportunities and other stuff like that, is there a concentration or an area of
the country that they're like more concentrated in than not for what maybe it's
specific to the things you look for. I mean, sometimes businesses. Yeah.

Stephen Hightower: if you're in the technology space, the I-4 corridor is
probably where the highest concentration of that is because you've got a huge
simulation, a huge gaming industry that's in Florida and that drives a lot of
the technical skills. Yeah. And if you're out outside of those spaces, it's sort
of hit or miss.

Doug Camin: I see. Yeah. So like up here in upstate New York, like we have a
technology corridor that stretches usually across like the Buffalo, Rochester,
Syracuse area, a lot of university driven in our case, places like RIT and stuff
like that. yeah. So all right, getting back to some conversations on leadership
and the qualities of leadership and stuff like that. a good portion of our
listeners are people who are coming up in their careers and they're looking for
either their first roles or their first places to go. What advice would you have
for them to break into the space, and when I say the space, I mean, even like, I
want to be like a deputy CIO or assistant director of I.t or those types of
things, how do they get up in that space and get themselves that first seat?
What advice would you have for them?

Stephen Hightower: Well, there's really three things I think that you have to
do. One, you have to understand the business and you have to know what their
business problems are. You can't just look at it from a technical perspective,
right? I remember a time early in my career where technologists would want to
just put technology in because it was the latest and coolest technology. And I
was in a meeting and I was like, what business problem is this solving? And I
was, getting a lot of heat for asking the question. But when you look at it,
you've got to really understand the business to understand what problems need to
be solved, what are their pain points? How do they do it? The second thing that
you have to do is you have to develop relationships within the business. If
you're in there or if you're trying to get a job in a business, you've got to
make phone calls. You've got to do things other than, hey, I sent, fifty resumes
out or I sent X number of emails. It's still a personal touch, right? There's
still a social aspect of it that people need to keep in mind. And then the third
piece of it is really your problem solving skills and collaboration and being
able to be able to work with other people to collaborate together and solve
problems in a way that can be done quickly and efficiently. Right. So, a lot of
people work remotely, so know how whiteboarding works. whether it's Miro or
Figma or whatever the tool is, be able to show people how to solve those
problems using those tools, whether they're in the office or not, because you
can create that type of environment in a virtual way. And I guess the last thing
that I would add, I said three, but I'm going to make a change to say there's
four. one of the skills that I think has been most beneficial to me is having
lean Six Sigma, as a background, that is really, a good framework for people to
understand, right? Because that's all about business processes. It's about
driving waste out of the businesses and becoming more efficient. So if you have
those four things, I think that will give you a leg up. But you have you have to
look outside. You can't just be narrowly focused in one particular area. You
have to look at those four different areas.

Doug Camin: Moving to today's CIOs. the people sitting in the chair now like
myself. what are some of the biggest challenges that, you see that we're facing
as CIOs operating inside of these businesses?

Stephen Hightower: Well, it's, got a couple of different challenges, right? One
is your business environment, right? how's your revenue? How's your growth?
Where are you positioned in the market? And so how can you lean in to be able to
help the business grow and in those different ways. And I focus on revenue. I
focus on how do I add value? I don't want to be known as a cost center. I don't
want to be known as, oh, well, you need to take another twenty percent out of
your budget. I want to be able to turn it around to be able to say, this is the
business case that we can use to be able to drive value in the business, versus
it's a cost reduction exercise. And with the tools and the technologies that are
available today, it's really about how are you viewed as being a value added
partner and how do you demonstrate that in really meaningful ways as well as
consistently? Not just I did one project that was successful. I mean, in my
current role, there was some stability issues And, one of the first things that
I did is I put in a monitoring tool that would help me be proactive so that, we
run a manufacturing business. I wanted to know anytime there was an issue before
the first shift came in. And as we went through that and got the level of
insight that we needed to find out where the waste, where the problems were, we
were proactively going in to solve that. And I did a survey when I first came
in. And to get a baseline in terms of what people thought. And then I just
recently did a second survey and just that piece of being proactive and
demonstrating that and driving that accountability and that speed in terms of
our responsiveness showed up actually in the survey. So that's the piece that
you want to be able to do is you want to create value. You don't want to just be
known as a cost center. You want to show how investment can really drive the
business forward.

Doug Camin: Yeah. another thing that I always focus on. And I think you touched
on this was like your monitoring tools and those types of things. I love the no
surprises mantra in it. Don't like to be surprised by anything. Like, I want to
know before anybody else knows if something's not working right or something's
not functional. I feel like one of the worst things you can end up the position
you end up in it is when you're getting a call from some end user that's like,
hey, why aren't these things working? And they haven't been working for the last
like thirty minutes or something like that.

Stephen Hightower: That's right. Yeah. that's what creates value. That's what
creates trust in the business that you're going to be able to spend the money or
the investments in a responsible way that drives value for the business. And if
you're proactive in solving problems before they actually occur. And you're
being able to demonstrate that in a meaningful way. but you also have to have
transparency. for instance, the monitoring tool that I, used, I have dashboards
that are out on the factory floor that show the performance of the systems and
how things are working. And they're red, yellow, green. if there's a problem, it
shows up as red. If it's green, everything's good, but it's out on the floor for
everybody to see. So you've got to have a level of transparency. It can't just
be a black box that nobody knows what you're doing.

Doug Camin: Oh for sure. Yeah. I love the radical transparency ideas. the more
honest and straightforward we are usually the better you get buy in and trust
and support. it doesn't always work out perfectly. sometimes it can be
weaponized against you if you will. but broadly speaking, that's a good deal. A
good way to go is that people feel, if they feel like they're informed, they
generally will start trusting that you're doing the right thing.

Stephen Hightower: That's right. And it's about building that trust and
demonstrating that over and over again reliably in a high quality manner.

Doug Camin: Yeah. So we didn't talk much about AI tools. So I'm going to venture
over there for a little bit here. we talked a little bit about how they're
changing the nature of how we're incorporating or analyzing our data. where are
you seeing some of that future going? Are you working in the manufacturing
space? how are these tools starting to impact your businesses and whether it's
staff or manufacturing or whatever the case may be?

Stephen Hightower: Well, it's affecting, efficiency in terms of, what we do,
right? we've deployed a digital worker. So we have a digital worker that can
answer the phone, can answer technical questions, can provide answers to people
that previously we had sales reps or other people doing it. And by deploying
that particular technology, we allow the sales reps to move up the value chain
to be able to drive more revenue, be able to service the customer better, to be
able to increase the Csat because they're not getting, a lot of what I would say
would be nuisance calls that can be handled with technology. that's just one
example of some of the items that we've taken as well as the agents. I'm a
Claude fan. I use anthropic as my go to, and the analysis of what it's capable
of doing is pretty amazing. I mean, the new models that are coming out are just
getting better and better, faster and faster. You still have to have a human in
the loop in terms of, their capability. And then of course, we have, some of
our, large CRM vendor. We, use their product and we use their AI capabilities,
which are actually pretty good. And we're doing things like, being able to have,
our installers upload their invoices automatically without having to email them
in. We take them, we process them. we're able to do things that make it easier
to do business with. And the easier we are to do business with through
technology, the more satisfied our dealer network will be in the better off
we'll be in terms of our Csat and our overall customer satisfaction by
leveraging technology in those ways. And then, personally, for me, it's just
boosted my productivity to a different level in terms of what I'm able to get in
terms of answers analysis. Just very, quickly. And then, we have a ERP solution
that, is being built out in terms of some AI capabilities to be able to automate
and provide agents that will solve problems that require a human to go in and
take, the time to do it. And now we're deploying agents that can automate that
and be able to improve the productivity so that, as, we look at, our people and
their experience right there, the core of the business and we need to be able to
focus on allowing them to play to the strengths, to be able to focus on the
customer and really to drive the value and then take all the, what I would say,
the nuisance work, the administrative type of things. let's take that and let's
apply technology to it because that that's what drives real value for the
business.

Doug Camin: Nice. All right. So we're coming up on the end of our episode here.
and as we get into the last, segment or time here, I want to return to
leadership and the qualities of leadership. you've seen a lot of companies,
you've worked with a lot of bosses. what are some of the best qualities that
you've interfaced with in terms of other leaders that you find they're the most
valuable to use.

Stephen Hightower: that they embrace inclusion, right? they look to be able to,
include different perspectives. you can think of it like a red team review,
right? If you have, an environment where you're always looking for the best
answer, where you're being challenged to be able to, do more than you did, the
day before. And they do it in a way that's embracing and inclusive and
respectful that I think is one of the best things. And, it's having the right
attitude. It's a can do attitude. it's doing the right thing each and every
time. And then being a team player and making sure that you support your
teammates so that when they're having issues, that you're there to be able to
help them and support them so that they can be successful. It's just not about
an individual's success. It's about the success of the company.

Doug Camin: Thanks. All right. Well, Steven, I'd like to thank you for investing
your time with us on You've Been Heard today.

Stephen Hightower: Well, thanks very much, Douglas, I appreciate it. Yeah.

Doug Camin: So all right, everyone, that is a wrap on today's episode of You've
Been Heard the platform for IT leaders. we'd like to thank Steven Hightower for
joining us today. my name is Doug Camin, your co-host today. And we will look
forward to seeing you on the next episode.