441- IT Leaders Need Storytelling Skills w/Matt Thomas

Michael Moore: Hey, folks, this is Michael Moore and I'm here with Matt Thomas,

director of IT and marketing for Crabapple Roofing. Welcome to the program,

Matt.

Matt Thomas: Thank you for having me. I'm very excited.

Michael Moore: Yeah. so director of IT and marketing, you don't see that a lot.

That's not a usual combination. good thing, that I also share that, combination.

So, we're going to have some fun conversations around that. let's talk about

real quick how you came to be director of IT and marketing together.

Matt Thomas: Okay. so I have been in the IT space for about twenty years now.

Actually started twenty years ago this year, working for small MSPs. it's

usually just the owner myself, for the first several years, getting the

processes down, figuring out everything and, growing the company, growing the

team. And, found that I have a bit of a shelf life when it comes to that

scenario of eight years. And it's kind of weird because it's happened twice now.

so I started in Augusta, Georgia. It was my first IT job and eight years hit got

burnt out. and I've always been a creative before the visual arts, it was music.

So I played in bands, toured the country, got signed to record labels, all that

stuff. but it's always like my creative outlet since I was a kid. And, I

remember telling my dad when I was going through college or about to go into

college, I was like, dad, I don't want to go to college. I'm gonna be a rock

star. So, that's where I spent all of my time off. Like I have like two weeks a

year that I can take vacations. Like, let's blow it all in two weeks. Let's go

on the road, let's have some fun and then come back and just grind it out for

the rest of the year. So, in between, the first job and then getting burnt out,

twenty fourteen, I moved to the Atlanta area and I started building up a

recording studio in my house. and I was like producing like metalcore bands like

hip hop and stuff. And then I was writing like electronic music on the side. And

it was just a hodgepodge of all kinds of stuff and obviously wasn't making any

money doing that. So I was like, okay, let's, dip our toes back into it and

found myself in another small MSP with no direction. And I'd come from a

situation where I got to see how I was built and structured and, putting the

proper tools in place and the importance of proper documentation and internal

processes and communication with clients. And so helped, the second company

build up, figuring out what their verticals are really structuring it like a

true MSP. and it, started getting some success. But again, it comes to eight

year mark get burnt out, man. So, at that time, I was getting heavily into

photography and then it became videography and I was just having fun with it,

taking photos out in the city or recording live bands. some videos I put

together for them and just started creating some content and then decided, you

know what, it's time to do something different. So let me start a video

production company. no real world experience doing it. I just knew that I loved

it and I was like, we're going to figure this out. And I had a partner at the

time who, had more of the business mind of things. And I was the creative. And

then it kind of all blended together where I learned the business side of. The

operation and became more heavily involved in that. I ran that for the past four

years. the business was with an ex of mine, so I was kind of getting again burnt

out on that just kind of was losing my drive for it. it's like, yeah, I'm super

protective of passions and monetizing passions for me has always ended in chaos.

So, it was time to dip out and, I was like, really trying to figure out what I

was going to do. And, when I stopped working for the previous MSP, I continued

on contractually just to help, build up the team, help make sure everything's

documented. I had so much in my head. I had so much trust with all the clientele

as well that, it was going to be a burden on the company for me to just

completely disappear. So. And I didn't want to do that either. so I stayed on,

more of like a consultant role. just making sure things were smooth training up

the staff, all that other stuff, making sure that they had my knowledge that

they could use moving forward. so when I exited the video production company, I

was just looking for jobs and submitting resumes and not really getting

anywhere. substantial. Of course, at the time it was like during the holidays

last year. And that's like the absolute worst time to try and find a job. So I

spent like an hour schmoozing it, at making it look all nice and some new

information and threw up a post just like, hey, this is who I am, this is what I

do. And, just looking for my next role, open to some conversations. funny story

is the company I work for now was a client of the previous MSP and the owner,

like within five minutes of me posting that on LinkedIn, texted me directly,

said, hey, so you're looking for a job, it's like we need to have a

conversation. So I was like, okay, let's talk. And, the company grew really,

really fast. it's a pretty large company, definitely outgrew the MSP side of

things. They wanted to establish some internal systems. It's just part of the

natural progression of growth. And, so I had a good conversation with him and,

he was looking for obviously somebody to help stand up the internal

infrastructure for it. Also with him knowing my marketing really, video content

creation, a lot of the product that I created for businesses in the previous

company was, brand stories, some social media content, but mostly awareness

culture, all of that stuff. so not really, sparked his interest as well. And

he's like, hey, let's make you both, let's give you two jobs, buddy. So I was

like, all right, let's do it. And for me, it works so well because it gives me

the best of both worlds. I'm very busy every day. and I get to split my brain in

two, so it's like I get the technical part. and then I get the creative part as

well. And I have teams now to help support that. So I'm not the only one doing

everything, which is how it's been in the past. So it's been nice to be in this

situation where I can actually teach and bestow my knowledge onto my team and

then see them grow exponentially, really quick. And I've been here since January

and, within a few weeks, my tech lead, who had no real world technical

experience, like, it support experience was very competent. the how to questions

reduced the frequency very, very quickly. so have some automation going on with

both departments. They're able to run and go, I'm able to steer it, give them

direction, provide guidance and all that stuff. And, at the same time being a

filter for the C-suite on, hey, we have all these ideas. It's like, great. I'm

your sponge. Which.

Michael Moore: Which marketing helps with.

Matt Thomas: Yeah, absolutely.

Michael Moore: That's, an interesting piece about marketing is the ability to

translate, complex ideas into ideas that, people can easily take in very

quickly. And it's anything the C-suite being extremely busy needs, it's to be

able to take in a really complex idea really quickly and make a judgment call on

it. so I imagine that your marketing experience helps there quite frequently.

Matt Thomas: I feel like, even the previous IT experience helped with that

because my approach has always been, if I'm helping somebody, I want them to

understand it in a way, I never want to talk over anybody. I never want to make

them feel dumb for asking a question. Mhm. I want them to feel supported and to

be able to explain a very technical thing in a way for them to understand, is

like storytelling. it's figuring out the best way for them to digest that

information. And so yeah, when you are dealing with, leadership panel, who is

fast moving, they don't have a lot of time. They just need to, know the bullet

points, the most important things and why this is important. And ultimately, how

much is this going to cost, So it's been that approach of mine from the

beginning, being able to translate a complex situation into something that's

easily digestible.

Michael Moore: There's actually a lot of, crossover, and with marketing and it

that I think many people don't realize. I'm sure you've seen it in what you do,

but there is a lot of crossover, especially now with, AI. right. I mean, we're

looking at a new way of, people using content and people that are not people

using content, right? I mean, we're looking at new ways of people, finding us,

new ways of, people exploring and coming to their own conclusions and,

marketing, now sits, very close to it in that regard because they need to

understand a lot of those concepts to be able to understand how, to effectively

reach their consumers.

Matt Thomas: Yeah. being able to use an AI tool for research, for strategy, for,

a content rollout scenario, is super helpful. definitely helps speed up the

process. my marketing manager, she's a very hands on, like she likes to create

graphics and, every once in a while I'll throw in, something in ChatGPT and I'll

create like this graphic, and when I initially started doing that, she was like,

oh no, you're like trying to replace me. I was like, no, no, no, no, it's not to

replace anybody. it would have taken me hours to create this. Now it's not

perfect. It's not what we want to put out, but it's just going to go up on the

TV like in the office. That's different. But if it's something that's going out,

like, she's designing something. And for me to explain the changes, there's also

a bit of a language barrier there too. for me to be able to explain the changes

that I see in my head, it was just much quicker to throw her design in, have it

revamp and then hand it over to her and be like, you're to not post this. This

is just to give you an idea.

Michael Moore: Yeah, this is what I'm looking for.

Matt Thomas: it's much quicker, much more efficient, just saving time wherever I

can to help her do her job and to her, feel like she's still contributing and

doing what she loves to do.

Michael Moore: Yep.

Matt Thomas: So, we're all jumping in on it. we're right in the middle of,

rolling out, Claude for everybody in our company, developing custom solutions

based off of, the position and tasks and things like that. And the whole culture

behind it from top down has been this is not to replace anybody. This is, how

can we grow this company over the next couple of years without adding more

overhead?

Michael Moore: We got to think if these are solutions that are open to

everybody. Right. Using those tools is one thing, right? You're going to have to

use those tools to stay relevant, right? Working and implementing the correct

way and designing the right business solutions around them. That's your

strategic advantage.

Matt Thomas: Yeah. Yep. So, with most C-suite scenarios, it's all right, let's

do this. Let's get this done like we want the biggest solutions possible. It's

laying down that base foundation of, the proper strategy, the proper structure,

starting small, building that solid foundation, rolling it out slowly,

controlled, so there has been a little bit of pumping the brakes on my end when

it comes to those conversations. But, we try to work as fast as possible, but

also within the guidelines that we've set up for a proper rollout.

Michael Moore: Well, the good news is that AI implementation mirrors a lot of

what the good IT implementations have done in the past, right? Having good data,

making sure that you lay out that structure, paying attention to people and

processes and how they're implemented correctly throughout the system, getting

all that stuff right helps with the AI implementation.

Matt Thomas: Oh for sure. And, that was my approach coming into the company

because they didn't have any structure in place. I came in, I knew what tools I

wanted, I was already familiar with the company, which helped out a lot. But, I

also spent a good bit of time sitting down with people and talking to them and

observing and figuring out their workflow and what could be improved. Okay. I

see you've got to do lists all over the freaking place. let's get you in Clickup

and see how you like that. like this could probably help you keep a little more

organized. so yeah, just being strategic, laying out the foundation and policies

and procedures. And that was a big thing too. during this whole process, my tech

lead is in charge of, all the SOPs, at least the draft creations of everything

that he's doing. We have solid documentation throughout our department for sure.

And we're ingesting everybody else's SOPs and kind of creating these libraries

that they can go to.

Michael Moore: Very nice, very nice. Yeah. have you guys dived into on the

marketing side yet? a I o sometimes also referred to as g e o

Matt Thomas: Haven't yet. I'm still kind of laying down the foundation on the

marketing side because it has just been blasted me ever since I got here. but

yeah, that's on the horizon. really diving into that, we're in the process of

revamping our website, revamping all kinds of things, you know, actually putting

together marketing strategies, pumping out ads, call to actions, lead gen, all

that stuff. So part of that process is getting to the ale.

Michael Moore: So yeah, Well, the good news is that, SEO, is a good foundation

for a I o anyway, right? So the general practices there. So, after that, there's

schema changes the way that you post stuff. so it's digestible by the AI. so you

can get, more mentions and stuff like that. so, if you're laying down the basis

of a good SEO strategy. you're already on your way there, right? And after it's

just tweaking how you put out blog posts. how do you know putting FAQs on your

website and tables on your website so that it can pull those into the AI engines

and stuff. So.

Matt Thomas: Exactly. the AI part, it's going to take, a while. it's going to be

an ongoing process. Oh it is. but, probably will end up bringing in somebody

else on the it side of things just to help facilitate the volume that we'll be

working out as far as that goes, which will then free me up to really dedicate a

lot more time on the marketing side because I have a lot of ideas. It's just

finding the time to do it.

Michael Moore: Oh, yeah. I'm sure it is. what are some of your challenges that

you're working through now?

Matt Thomas: Challenges. Time. Time is always the biggest struggle right now is

just finding the time to do everything. Mhm. So it's, being realistic on

expectations and rollouts and things like that. if a new idea comes through

right now, it's, hey, we're slating this for Q2 of next year. Like, right.

anything else that's big, like we're gonna have to defer unless it's like

mission critical. so time is one of the biggest things.

Michael Moore: sounds like then also prioritization, right?

Matt Thomas: Right. again, that kind of goes back to being able to interface

with leadership and say, okay, I hear you. I love this idea. I want this as

well. Realistically, we're going to need this much time or we need to hire

somebody, Just being realistic with it. but yeah, I mean, that's kind of really

the biggest struggle things right now on both ends running very, smooth. very

happy with how things are going right now.

Michael Moore: So very nice, and you've got a lot of stuff on your plate. let's

talk a little bit about documentation. You mentioned it before, coming from an

MSP, you know how big documentation is. I've also spent time in MSPs. by the

way, you get so much experience, especially from a smaller MSPs because you end

up wearing many hats. Right. but, documentation is one of the biggest ones. talk

to me a little bit about documentation and how you're using it in this role.

Matt Thomas: so one of the tools that I started using a little later in the

game, at the previous MSP was hoodoo. And so before that, it was, locked

spreadsheets or like, a word doc of some sort that's stored in like one drive or

something that's just housing all of the essential keys to the company. and a

while back thinking this isn't, the safest way to go about this. So let's find a

better solution that can at least house that information, not only login

information, but, systems information, every bit of detail about the network,

about, the rules on the firewall, what's allowed in and out, everything you can

think of, documentation wise would just reside in that company that we'd set up

in hoodoo, and the owner of the company was always provided with access to their

vault. So they never felt like, we're holding them hostage in some way. Like

you've got your keys. Like this is your company. Now we're keeping it safe and

secure for you. We'll hand this over to you in a secure fashion if it comes to,

parting ways. so coming on board here, I'm finding that everybody's got

spreadsheets and, it's, things are written down. We got, some generic passwords

floating around. So it's like, okay, it's one of the initial to do items is

let's tidy all this up. Let's, yeah, let's put some solid documentation

together. because I got fractional documentation from the previous company

whenever I came on board. so still kind of putting the puzzle pieces together

for a little bit. But yeah, that was one of the first things I got was I just,

signed back up for hoodoo for the company and just started throwing every bit of

information and documentation in there. beyond that, it was, a matter of making

sure passwords are changed. We've got a secure password policy. there was a

little bit of documentation through all the departments and I kind of helped

encourage everybody. It's like, hey, you need to start writing down your SOPs.

You need to have something for your role, so it's like, if you want to bring in

somebody else to take over this position, or you need an assistant or you're

going to leave the company, like you want to be able to leave this information

with the company. So it was a big push towards that and it was adopted very

quickly. Everybody loved the idea because they wanted to be able to like pull up

something, right, right. If they needed to explain a process. Okay, cool. go

into the accounting folder. Over here is all of our SOPs or whatever it is, and

they can just pull it up. So, adoption of that was, like I said, very quick.

they were very excited for that. but yeah, I mean, as far as, yeah.

Michael Moore: So with your cloud implementation you got going on right now,

what are some of your plans, on how to utilize Claude to, take your

documentation to the next level there.

Matt Thomas: one of our initial projects that we created and, on the it side of

things was like an SOP library. Mhm. so we fed it all of our documents. and,

with it being a project, obviously we can control access, right? So, you can

share it with whoever we want and then revoke, whenever we want. but,

essentially, the SAP library is there to obviously house all the information we

fed it. And, oftentimes on the tech side, that one step makes total sense to

you. There's probably three broken down for somebody to easily follow instead of

like reading between the lines or trusting that, oh, yeah, I have this

experience, so I understand this stuff. So we had to crawl through and make

recommendations, some tweaks. we have it all like whenever it pulls it up, it'll

pull it up in text form. So you can just get into the chat and just be like

printer set up. It'll pull up, very nice a list, get you to choose. Okay, cool.

I want to look at that one, give you all the steps. if we can ask it to, create

a company branded PDF of this information in case we wanted to print it out All

the branding information. All the design information is baked in.

Michael Moore: It's nice to have branding skills. So.

Matt Thomas: Oh yeah, it's all there. So every project, it's all baked in

because.

Michael Moore: I would recommend any company to have. Yeah. It's set up that

branding skill as one of your first skills you set up because it is reports and

any possible thing you want, deck slides and all that stuff comes in, as

branded. And later on when you're making custom programs, you can also use that

skill as well to brand your programs.

Matt Thomas: Mhm. Yeah. So branding obviously is huge for me.

Michael Moore: Yeah, it's really nice. So what do you like most about your job?

What fires you up the most?

Matt Thomas: So while I've had shelf life with it and in different ways, even

with creative ventures, coming up with solutions, solving problems, making

somebody's life at work just so much easier because, most of the time,

especially in the tech field, like you don't hear from somebody usually unless

there's a problem, they're pissed off. Yeah. And the whole world is crashing.

the awesome part about this job is you get to play hero every day. Whether it's

solving a problem that somebody's facing on their computer or creating this

beautiful, branding video that properly shows them exactly who they are

authentically with their message, just coming up with solutions every day.

that's all I do all day long. It's like solving problems, coming up with

solutions, testing things like. I mean, that's what gets me up every day. I've

got about an hour drive into work every day and, I don't even care. I'm just

like, all right, cool. Let's go.

Michael Moore: That's awesome. when did you stop thinking technical and start

thinking more like, a business owner type piece?

Matt Thomas: Yeah. So that kind of came in, before I had my own business. So

with the previous MSP, it was just him at the time. the operation was all over

the place. He had a solid client base. I had the skill enough to pick up and go,

I was given full autonomy and freedom to run it how I saw fit. and I took a lot

of pride in what I was doing. I wasn't just hopping on remote sessions or making

on site visits and solving a problem and bailing, like I was developing

friendships and relationships with clients. I was their trusted source.

Michael Moore: Mhm.

Matt Thomas: every day, they always knew that they can call me, and I would

never make them feel bad about it. Right. I was always there to to fix whatever

problem that they were experiencing at the time. so I took the owner role, even

though I wasn't an owner in the company, very seriously. I treated it like it

was my own.

Michael Moore: Yeah.

Matt Thomas: And, obviously having my own company, definitely helped that grow,

exponentially because it was all on me at that time, you had to, so starting

with the MSP side and taking on, full ownership of the position of the

operations made me feel like a business owner and I treated it that way. And

then obviously, going through my own venture, really gave me that sense of

ownership when it came to the job. And, whenever I came here, I was given the

freedom to create the system that I needed in place to support the company. and

I didn't think twice about it. It was just get up and go like, let's make this

happen. And so, every day that I come here, I treat this as this is my company,

in every way, support, presentation, representation, all of that.

Michael Moore: What do you think that, maybe you do that other IT directors

don't, that makes the difference.

Matt Thomas: I'll be honest with you, I don't know a lot of other IT directors.

I've interfaced with a few on the MSP side. but from what I have seen in the

past, especially depending on the size of the company, is just being out of

touch with what's actually happening, just directing your minions and, you've

got so and so breathing down your neck to have this certain result. So you got

to make it happen. All right, guys, get to work, and instead of like really

understanding what it's like to be the boots on the ground every day, no matter

how busy I am, I'm always involved in some way on that level. I always want to

make sure that I'm in the know that I understand the problem, that I understand

what people are going through, what my team is going through, and to so that I

can support them and that they can be effective with their job. So I guess in my

own experience, where they go wrong? Is maybe taking that leadership role that

they have to the point where they lose touch?

Michael Moore: Yeah, that's a good one. I think you're right about that. I think

you can get too far removed, from the day to day. and when you do, you don't

quite understand the little things that are adding up and eating away at the

team.

Matt Thomas: Oh, yeah. I make it a point to have, weekly check ins, weekly

meetings. I'll sit both teams down. Let's talk. I mean, let's talk about what

you're doing. What are you going through? What are you struggling with? How can

I help you?

Michael Moore: Mhm.

Matt Thomas: I want it to be an open floor for anything. my office is always

open. You're having a bad day. You're struggling with something. Let's talk.

Let's find a solution. If it means that I have to step in for a bit and drive it

to help, that's totally fine. I'm not here just to sit and just make sure it

gets done.

Michael Moore: So what's one myth about it? Leadership that you wish would go

away?

Matt Thomas: I guess the technology itself is just too complicated. like going

back to being able to tell a story to be able to relay information. Like, yeah,

technology is complicated, but it's also easily understood if you can tell the

story. Right?

Michael Moore: Yeah. Yeah. I love that you keep coming back to that

storytelling, right? Because that's such a marketing, one on one really. Right.

Is that storytelling? And it is a definite marketing concept that plays well

within it. If you can do it well.

Matt Thomas: Yeah, absolutely. it's like the fear is, just so complicated. I'm

never going to understand this. It costs too much. Whatever the story telling,

part of it kicks in and you explain in a way that they can understand. And as

far as cost goes, here's the reason why. And this is why it's important. it's

going to cost some money, but guess how much time it's going to save the company

because it's much easier. Guess so much safer. You're going to be, being able to

relay that information in a way that hits your audience in the way that is the

most effective. I mean, that's, I think it's a huge skill to have on your side.

Michael Moore: Yeah, it's a good skill for anyone in it to have. it's a skill

that is extremely needed if you're the director of IT and marketing at the same

time. It's good. and there's lots of different ways to tell stories. So, I think

that comes over in marketing. I mean, there's so many different ways to tell

stories. There's so many different ways that you can, get points across. there's

so many different methodologies that exist to tell stories. Everyone has their

own methodology. So it's really interesting to see that. So If there's anything

that you feel that the C level executives need to hear or business owners need

to hear, what would that be?

Matt Thomas: I guess. Just kind of going back to. Kind of a previous statement

about, it doesn't have to be too complicated. It doesn't have to be too

expensive. there's a reason why solutions exist and why they cost a certain

amount of money, with proper implementation. It's just going to make your life

easier in the long run. I've dealt with different levels of the, C-suite section

where you've got, your younger side that's quick to adopt, quick to understand.

And you also have the older crowd that is very hesitant because in their past

experience, they may have gone through something similar and it went horribly

wrong. So then they're always going to put up that block like, oh no, we're just

not going to do that. No. Had a terrible experience. Mhm. we just had one where,

it's like, a mobile carrier switch that, we negotiated, the it side did. And,

it's going to save the company a quarter of a million dollars over the course of

like five years. just for switching services. And that project was shelved

multiple times by, senior leadership that just had a bad experience in the past.

So it was that fine, storytelling approach of, hey, not only is there a dollar

amount here, but like it's going to be okay. There's a support system in place

to handle this.

Michael Moore: And here's how we can walk through this so that you're not going

to relive the past again.

Matt Thomas: Right?

Michael Moore: what universal best practice do you feel is actually detrimental?

Matt Thomas: I guess, just kind of pulling out of more recent experience. It

would be, a best practice on, a business owner or a senior level position where,

you're constantly looking at money on the books and for-going solid solutions

because it cost too much initially. Say there's, an initial cost element, but

over time it saves a bunch of money.

Michael Moore: Yep.

Matt Thomas: it's like cutting that initial check to get the process started,

but that ROI is like seven months, Yeah. Like, okay, it hurts. It hurts in that

moment to be like, oh, really? but okay, seven months is recouped. Cool.

Michael Moore: Yep.

Matt Thomas: Then we're saving a ton of money after that.

Michael Moore: Yeah. it's a really big difference. and I think sometimes, in

that same vein, I think that sometimes people look, too short term on the books.

rather than going, what is my long game here. I agree with you on that. I think

that that's a really big one. right? So what is it looking like eighteen months

from now?

Matt Thomas: Me specifically, eighteen months. I'll just call it goal is,

successful execution of, solid AI solutions for the company that continue to not

take anybody's job. It enhances their work experience. it makes them way faster,

way more efficient at their job and increases, the revenue for the company

exponentially without, having to bring on anybody else, on a large scale. So if

you want to take your company from, eighty to one hundred and say one hundred

and fifty million or something like that, utilizing the AI powerhouse that we

have at our fingertips getting ahead of it. I feel like that's going to be.

Where I see at least this company being, in eighteen months, globally, tech wise

in general, I still feel like, AI is going to be a huge part. AI is definitely

going to be still huge in eighteen months. I feel like the conversation's going

to go from this cool tool and development and all this other stuff to, real

strategy, data, AI governance, having processes in place to properly, roll this

out or keep it in line. so I feel like it's going to become more and more,

there's a lot of things that will be automated, for sure. Mhm. it's just going

to make our job so much better and easier and more effective than it is to,

like, take anything away.

Michael Moore: How do we keep track of it? All those automations,

Matt Thomas: Right.

Michael Moore: How do we make sure that the people that built those automations

that walk away, that we can still maintain them?

Matt Thomas: Exactly. So you're talking, really well thought out policies in

place that protect that proprietary information. You're going to take your skill

somewhere else for sure, but you're not going to steal a skill. You're not going

to steal a, custom app that you created.

Michael Moore: No, but what about the ones that, people create and don't tell

you about the shadow AI?

Matt Thomas: Yeah, exactly.

Michael Moore: so what's that going to look like eighteen months from now?

Matt Thomas: Yeah. we're brand new into this and that's already on the docket.

it's already something being thought about and trying to create good strategy

around that to protect it, to keep it, where we control the access. Mhm. so

yeah, I mean, it's still a learning process, a lot of research into what other

people are doing, taking it slow, developing solutions, rolling it out.

Michael Moore: and making sure those solutions provide the outcomes that,

everyone wants.

Matt Thomas: Exactly. doing that, making sure that these solutions that are

being worked on actually save substantial company time and aren't just cool

tools, right?

Michael Moore: Right.

Matt Thomas: So yeah, there's certain things that will be, cross-department and

within whole departments there's going to be a lot of one offs too, based on

somebody's workflow.

Michael Moore: So it sounds like to me what you're thinking is the future is AI

maturity.

Matt Thomas: Mhm.

Michael Moore: Right. And AI governance, right. And AI security and, companies

coming to grips with how to finally integrate that in to their solutions and to

their, companies and stuff and be able to get the outcomes that they want.

Matt Thomas: Exactly.

Michael Moore: I like it. Hey, folks, this has been Michael Moore. I've been

here with Matt Thomas, director of IT and marketing for Crabapple Roofing. Thank

you so much, Matt, for being on the program. We really appreciate it.

Matt Thomas: Thank you for having me. This has been excellent.